Friday, May 7, 2010

Channel Television & Mick Gradwell

" This is my professional view,it's not a nice message to say,that someone was there who i think has done an appalling job,and its obvious"

Det Supt Mick Gradwell

" Every Victim was told that they would have their day in court"- Channel Television

"Lenny Harper gave the Complainants False Hope" - Mick Gradwell

So did Lenny Harper give the Abuse Victims false hope?

Did Lenny Harper say that all the victims would have their cases prosecuted ?

C.T.V & Mick Gradwell seam to think so. Watch the C.T.V Clip


5.11   Deputy C.F. Labey of Grouville of the Minister for Homes Affairs regarding the number of prosecutions resulting from the historic abuse enquiry:

At the press conference on 12th November 2008 the Senior Investigating Officer stated he was not questioning that, historically, serious offences had been committed against children but that “there will however not be the number of court cases or prosecutions which were originally reported”; will the Minister state whose comments the Senior Investigating Officer was referring to, when they were made, what numbers were originally reported and the reasons for the shortfall?

Senator B.I. Le Marquand (The Minister for Home Affairs):

To a degree I am having to put myself into the mind of the Senior Investigating Officer at the time.  I deduce that it must have been the view of the Senior Investigating Officer that it was a matter of public record that while precise figures were not detailed that statements made to the media by the former Senior Investigating Officer had raised expectations that a significant number of prosecutions would follow.  Whereas by the time of the November press conference an assessment of the evidence by lawyers and police revealed that this was extremely unlikely.  May I say I am having to put myself into the mind of an officer who has since left the force.

5.11.1         The Deputy of Grouville:

Is it not the case that the then new Senior Investigating Officer took his information from a press report and not the quoted elements of it and not the facts available to him on police records?

Senator B.I. Le Marquand:

I have no idea.  I have looked at various relevant materials including the recorded press conferences and I noted from at least one of those a reference made by the Senior Investigating Officer in February 2008 to a large number of complainants.  Now, it may well be that deductions have been drawn from that.  My own personal view in relation to this matter is that expectations were raised of a large number of prosecutions and I think that is very unfortunate and very unfair, particularly to people who have been victims, either at Haut de la Garenne or elsewhere that their expectations should have been raised in this way.

5.11.2         The Deputy of St. Martin:

Can I ask the Minister, was it not a fact that the Senior Investigating Officer said: “There are a number of suspects to be interviewed” rather than there will be a number of prosecutions to follow.  Would that not have been really what the investigating officer was saying in February.  He would not have been in a position to say how many prosecutions there would have been at that stage.

Senator B.I. Le Marquand:

What the Deputy of St. Martin has just said corresponds with what I have seen on the recorded interviews.  It was a number of complainants, a huge number of complainants involved rather than a figure of a number of prosecutions.  I would agree with that.

5.11.3         Deputy M. Tadier:

The question may be best placed for the Attorney General but I think the Minister for Home Affairs can also answer part of it.  Given the difference in the evidential test between criminal and civil cases, has the Minister put in any mechanisms at the disposal of potential victims who may want to pursue civil cases against alleged abusers?

The Bailiff:

I am sorry, Deputy, I think that is too far removed from question here which is all about prosecutions.  Deputy of St. Mary.

5.11.4         The Deputy of St. Mary:

Does the Minister agree that one problem we are going to face in the debate on the appointment of the new Chief Officer is going to be his apparent unwillingness, in his reply to my written question 34, to let States Members see information that we need.  We are constantly getting these replies that say ... that do not allow us to track an event like the skull and how it evolved to a coconut.  I just want to see the entire trail and I just want confirmation from the Minister that we are going to get one, at least, trail so that we can evaluate this great debate, this great total difference between one set of opinions and another.

[11:15]

Senator B.I. Le Marquand:

I have publicly said on numerous occasions that once the disciplinary issues are completed in relation to the Chief Officer, which in my view will be on 21st July of this year at the latest, that I will want to put as much information to Members of this House and to the public as I can.  But I am having to take advice in relation to exactly how much can be put out and in what form.  This is the classic problem that Ministers have all the time in relation to reports, that there are references to individuals who are entitled to privacy, there are potential issues of libel, et cetera.  These matters have to be looked at carefully and professionally.  There is no lack of will on my part to put as much as possible, but what I can put I cannot tell at this stage.

5.11.5         The Deputy of St. Mary:

Supplementary, please.  What the former Senior Investigating Officer claimed, and whether it was number of complaints or prosecutions, that is a matter of record and it is quite simple for us to have that information so that we can track, so that we can find out what the truth of this matter is.

Senator B.I. Le Marquand:

The press conference which took place in November 2008 is a matter of record.  The details of that are surely already out in the public domain.

The Deputy of St. Mary:

The corroborating evidence.  We do not have a single trail so that we can find out whether the accusations made in November 2008 stack up at all or not.

Senator B.I. Le Marquand:

There are 2 primary sources I believe of information.  The first is parts of the Metropolitan Police report, their interim report which was produced in November 2008. Parts of that may well be available but not the whole of it because it deals with detailed operational matters in relation to individual investigations and that could never be revealed.  The major other issue will ultimately be the matters of the investigations conducted by the Wiltshire Police Force.  Again, there is a greater class of detail, there is a mass of documents, there is a mass of statements, a whole ... from memory there were 20 plus lever arch files fill of items there.  Now, what can go into the public domain and what cannot, I simply cannot tell at this stage.



*********************************************************************************


Now question 5.11.2 from deputy bob hill and the answer from ILM is very interesting,is ILM saying ' yes that is what lenny harper said, but we prefer the other version'. Remember what Mick Gradwell is saying, and also C.T.V in their report linked above.


Are they putting words into Lenny Harpers Mouth? Making it fit their agenda?


This is what Lenny Harper said


Evening Rico. Couple of things - to say that he "deduces" from me saying that there was "a large number of complainants" (which i did say) that I was saying "there will be a large number of prosecutions" (which I never ever said) is dishonest and unbelievable. One is fact - there were numerous complainants/victims, the other is fiction and is being said to fit what Gradwell and Warcup said. The victims themselves said in a statement that I had never raised false hopes. ILM is lying to cover his own inadequecies. Perhaps he might explain just how I raised those expectations he talks about?


Strange very Strange


Searching for the Truth


rs



44 comments:

voiceforchildren said...

Rico.

The exchange between Bob "The Guvn'r" Hill and ILM said it all. ILM has soon got to start realizing the whole world is watching his argument fall apart.

Serious questions now need to be asked about Mick Gradwell and David Warcup's media strategy. It is my opinion they did more damage to the HDLG enquiry, than anybody could have ever wished for.

voiceforchildren said...

Rico.

" Every Victim was told that they would have their day in court"- Channel Television

The good old "accredited" media, never letting facts get in the way of their agenda!

rico sorda said...

Just what is ILM saying here, is he saying Lenny Harper promised the abuse victims they would all have their day in court, or I think I he didn't say that, but I still think he did say that lol .

Bob Hill

'Can I ask the Minister, was it not a fact that the Senior Investigating Officer said: “There are a number of suspects to be interviewed” rather than there will be a number of prosecutions to follow'

ILM

'What the Deputy of St. Martin has just said corresponds with what I have seen on the recorded interviews. It was a number of complainants, a huge number of complainants involved rather than a figure of a number of prosecutions. I would agree with that'.

ILM also says this

"I have no idea. I have looked at various relevant materials including the recorded press conferences and I noted from at least one of those a reference made by the Senior Investigating Officer in February 2008 to a large number of complainants. Now, it may well be that deductions have been drawn from that."

So are they now just making this up as they go along. Lenny Harper says there is a large number of complainants and from that Warcup/Gradwell have deduced that he promised everyone a day in court,this is just crazy. It looks like ILM is not sure what is going on and then he says

"My own personal view in relation to this matter is that expectations were raised of a large number of prosecutions and I think that is very unfortunate and very unfair, particularly to people who have been victims, either at Haut de la Garenne or elsewhere that their expectations should have been raised in this way."

So we then move into his own personal view of a large number of prosecutions, and this is when he has agreed with Bob Hill,look at his reply to Bob Hill

Again i say this is just crazy and one reason i believe no disciplinary procedures have been brought.

THEY ARE MAKING IT UP AS THEY GO ALONG

RS

rico sorda said...

This is what Gradwell said from his CTV interview

In November 2008 new police chief David Warcup rubbished Lenny Harper's claims - there were no murders at Haut de la Garenne. Three people have been found guilty of abuse.

From the start Lenny Harper told the victims that their claims would be heard, he was their knight in shining armour, he said they would all have their day in court.

The man who took the reins from him, Detective Superintendent Mick Gradwell, says that was never going to happen, but of course Lenny Harper should be praised for kicking off the inquiry.

'This is my view on it, its my professional view, it's not a nice message to say that someone was there who has done an appalling job and it's obvious and apparent.

'Some of these people (abuse victims) who have got legitimate complaints won't get their day in court because the evidence isn't there - that's the truth - but they shouldnt have been given that expectation.'

rs

Anonymous said...

My view is that nobody gives a shit.

rico sorda said...

My view is you do.

Come on the blog then leave a comment oh people give a shit,thats for sure.

rs

Ian Evans said...

So many lies,
they cannot even remember them all any more.

Anonymous said...

This is really old news and get it in your thick heads you will never over turn police decisions like this one.

rico sorda said...

Anonymous

Sorry but i cant let it go, we want answers and we will keep searching until we find them. I believe something is seriously wrong with the Child Abuse investigation, I believe in my own opinion we are looking at a 'COVER UP unless ILM and the council of lies can prove otherwise that is my opinion.

We have the ACPO reports,the Suspension reviews,Sworn Affidavit and Graham Powers suspension is a neutral act

Why no disciplinary action, Anonymous come on you tell me.

The Abuse Survivors deserve answers and we will not stop until they get them

rs

Damocles said...

Rico wrote:
So are they now just making this up as they go along. Lenny Harper says there is a large number of complainants and from that Warcup/Gradwell have deduced that he promised everyone a day in court,this is just crazy.

Clearly ILM, Warcup and Gradwell are the type of person who see the virtue in secrecy - in controlling the information that the public has access to. Perhaps they find life easier the less the public knows? Maybe they think the public should trust their judgement so much that they feel insulted if the public demands access to the info they don't want to release?

It seems as if Lenny was cut from a more open straightforward cloth.

With this "oligarchy" noble cause arrogance in mind, perhaps they believe that Lenny's release of the info that there were a large number of complainants transgressed their ideas of what the public should know. They believed that the dumb public would jump to the wrong conclusions if they were told anything so they got shirty about Lenny's openness.

ILM said:

I deduce that it must have been the view of the Senior Investigating Officer that it was a matter of public record that while precise figures were not detailed that statements made to the media by the former Senior Investigating Officer had raised expectations that a significant number of prosecutions would follow.

I think what ILM means here is that he (and others like him) believe that if the public were told that there were large numbers of complainants, the poor naive general population, with their totally misplaced faith in the ability of the criminal prosecution service here to actually get a significant number of convictions in matters like this, would mistakenly assume that these numbers meant that there would be lots of prosecutions.

Anonymous said...

The victims will never get there day in court because the evidence just isn't there

The evidence isn't there because the police chief got rid of it
that's the truth
What has happened to the bath the dogs detected blood in, the bones the baby teeth that didn't come out natrually?

This is not going to go away people are aware there is a massive attempt to cover up going on and victims are gaining more sapport by the day

Rob Kent said...

Re "The victims will never get there day in court because the evidence just isn't there"

The evidence definitely is there, certainly enough for all the victims to win compensation, as has recently happened with the Catholic abuse victims, 21 years after the event.

It is true that the perpetrators may not all be brought to justice or convicted, as a result of the Jersey establishment and police cover up, but the truth will come out and Jersey will have to compensate all the victims.

When that day comes, it will be a disgrace for Jersey and the people currently in power who engineered the cover-up.

Of course, even now, as they realise that they are not going to silence and defeat the victims and their supporters, the Jersey authorities are in a difficult position because to come clean now, so soon after covering this up, they would all have to resign. They will need some way to wriggle out of it.

One solution is a public enquiry that takes a couple of years to complete, by which time most of them could have moved on. The victims could then be compensated and the new people in power could say, 'It wasn't us that did it.'

The other scenario is that the Jersey authorities carry on spinning and lying, keeping the story in the public eye, until the victims exhaust all the legal avenues until it gets to the High court. At which point, the masses of evidence already in the public domain (plus the stuff we haven't yet seen), will make it obvious to the judges that these people were abused.

But both of these scenarios, although execrable, are preferable to the Jersey authorities to admitting the cover-up and the reasons for it.

Anonymous said...

Sounds like people are desperately picking at bones to me!

GeeGee said...

" This is my professional view,it's not a nice message to say,that someone was there who i think has done an appalling job,and its obvious"

Det Supt Mick Gradwell

Well if it IS true that he is returning (and I have my doubts), I will offer you a view Mr Gradwell from a large groundswell of people who thought you were most UNprofessional when you slated Lenny Harper and the investigation.

Not only that, but you have been party to a massive cover-up, more of which unfolds almost on a daily basis.

So, the 'not very nice message' is that you are not at all welcome if you do come back!

Stoneface said...

Where is this proof that the Police Chief got rid of evidence, this is a joke? That is a very serious accusation. You guys will need to start making sense before you all end up in the Syvret Nut House for paranoid delusional freaks of nature.

rico sorda said...

Hi Stonefarce

I think you clicked on the wrong blog. There is a blog that you might like, it does everything they accuse stuart of doing lol

All I want is the truth nothing more and will keep searching for it

rs

Rob Kent said...

Notice that ILM switches to the passive voice when trying to defend Gradwell's statement:

"expectations were raised..."

He is no longer saying by whom they were raised because he knows he can no longer say, like Gradwell did, "Lenny Harper raised their expectations."

Now it may be true that in the frenzy of the original reporting that expectations were raised, but as the evidence shows, it was not by Lenny Harper. If anybody was responsible, it was the media themselves.

And to the commenter who used the unfortunate metaphor of 'picking over bones', the reason that people like Rico are not giving up on this is that Gradwell and Warcup are shown to be lying about the actions and statements of the previous investigation team: careers and reputations have been destroyed as a result of those lies.

It is also looking as if someone in the new team has been responsible for destroying evidence, such as the bath in the cellars (who gave the instruction to destroy that?).

Senior police officers on record lying, the possible destruction of evidence, and politicians involved in either organizing or defending the police behaviour - that seems like something that is worth getting to the bottom of if you want to live in a society governed by the rule of law and free from corruption.

Or maybe that doesn't bother you, so long as Jersey is not 'shafted internationally'?

Anonymous said...

Stuart Syvret will be at the Town Hall on Monday the 17th from 7pm He will talk and answer questions on all issues.

Jacques said...

Hi Rico I understand that an officer was in charge of all exhibits. If any evidence has gone missing, surely this officer is at fault. Keep up the good work.

Stoneface said...

Keep up what good work? This is getting nowhere why don't you just accept it? The Police have made up their minds and so has the AG. There is nothing you can do it about it. Politically it cannot be interfered with either. This is going around forever in circles and you cannot even see it. What a waste of time.

Anonymous said...

Stuart Syvret will be at the Town Hall on Monday the 17th from 7pm He will talk and answer questions on all issues.

Yes, like why is it not a single sole you have accused of wrong doing has been charged, that would be a good one to start with?

rico sorda said...

Stonefarce

"politically it cannot be interfered with either."

Why is that then? explain please

Anonymous

"Yes, like why is it not a single sole you have accused of wrong doing has been charged, that would be a good one to start with?"

Yes a very good place to start and well pointed out

Plus who are you referring

rs

Stoneface said...

The States Chamber cannot change decisions that have already been made by the Police otherwise who the hell is in charge here? You are wasting your time and I am yet to see anything of substance on any of these anti establishment blogs that say otherwise and I am talking about real concrete evidence to say Mick Gradwell is a crook which you imply very regularly.

His question at the Town Hall. He has said so many slurs about people it has gone beyond a joke. How many here? Scores, it has to be? Actually I will answer it for you, nobody takes any notice of him anymore and thats why nothing ever happens. How many posts from exile? 23 is it and nothing has had been actioned. Face it his influence isn't there anymore. He has had his day in the spotlight. Nobody cares anymore about what he has to say.

rico sorda said...

Stonefarce

What decisions are those? Graham Power is suspended which is a neutral act, it is now up to ILM to bring forward disciplinary action or not.

In the states today he said that they might have to wait till the 21st July when Graham Power resigns" WHAT A FECKING JOKE" . I will keep looking at the Abuse Investigation and will not stop until we find the truth simple as that.

I think stuart has his work cut out getting elected, it's not a given thats for sure. The local media has done a first class hatchet job on him and most of the voting public think the exile was about a driving license not a possible mass murderer at the hospital. Stuart will have to put a lot of hard work in if he wants to get elected.

If nobody cares about Stuart then so be it thats life big boy not much you can do about it,i can assure you and any child abusers who read this, We Will Not Be Going Away

rs

GeeGee said...

Stoneface - what a shame you can see no further than the end of your nose.

Rome was not built in a day, and getting to the real nitty gritty of this abuse scandal WILL happen by fair means or foul. Indeed those 'in the loop' are seeing on an almost daily basis what lies have been peddled by Warcup and Gradwell, with evidence to back it up too.

So, as has been suggested previously, if you have no interest in any of this, why not crawl back under your stone, or contribute to the 'Farce Blog' where your negative comments will be more than welcome I am sure!

Stoneface said...

It makes no relevance where you go, what you do, you cannot change anything. You have no power to influence police or AG decisions and thats what I am trying to tell you.

Why is Graham Power's suspension so important to you? Who cares? I hear he doesn't, he has been laughing all the way to the bank on full pay for 18 months.

None of this makes sense, you claim to want the truth yet you then go on to insult professionally qaulified experienced outside police offiers. What do represent really, just a conspriracy theories of Syvret's who nobody else listens to?

If the Police ever pick you up for anything and I am telling you now because I have been arrested a number of times and know how they work, when they see your name you will be treat like shit. But I don't need to tell you that one, you are the one who is claiming Warcup and Gradwell is corrupt.

rico sorda said...

Graham Powers suspension is so important because I believe he has been shafted so its easier to drop so many Abuse Cases. They make out that it has been one big mismanaged mess yet they have produced "NOTHING" 12th November 2008 TO 12TH May 2010 "NOTHING" . Do you not find that strange?

This is not going away, more politicians are aware of the facts and thats from both sides of the fence its good to talk

"Why is Graham Power's suspension so important to you? Who cares? I hear he doesn't, he has been laughing all the way to the bank on full pay for 18 months."

If this guy is laughing all the way to the bank why didn't he laugh all the way to the bank on the 12th november 2008 with a go quiet handshake, that is why this is all going wrong, the man has integrity and that was like a full on punch in the face for some of these clowns.

rs

Stoneface said...

"Graham Powers suspension is so important because I believe he has been shafted so its easier to drop so many Abuse Cases."

That is absolute rubbish and I cannot believe you just said that. If that is what you seriously think then you must be barmy.

Sorry that is total paranoia.

rico sorda said...

Why is it total "paranoia"

Its what I feel, and until I see something that makes me change my opinion I will be sticking with it. I can assure you im not barmy, it's looking like Graham Power has been totally shafted and Lenny Harper totally ridiculed and why " CHILD ABUSE THATS WHY ".

The Catholic Church must deal with it and so must we.

Why no charges against Graham Power come on stoneface start putting your side over tell me why no charges

rs

Stoneface said...

Well stick to it then but you won't change anything.

Why you even give Harper or Power any recognition after all was revealed on the dig really is an eye opener but then again I doubt you pay any tax.

rico sorda said...

"Why you even give Harper or Power any recognition after all was revealed on the dig"

And what was that then?

You didn't answer my question as why no charges have been brought against Graham Power

rs

rico sorda said...

I have worked and paid taxes since the day i left school

rs

Stoneface said...

You only select what you want to read and have been brainwashed so this is a pointless exchange.

You won't get anywhere with this and you only have to look at how far Syvret has got in the last 2 years with the authorities to see you are wasting your time even more.

Nobody protects child abusers, but people do not meddle in police investigations to the extent your group do. People are just sick of it all. You have never helped the JCLA with any of this.

rico sorda said...

So what else should i be reading, point me in that direction but please don't say the farce blog lol.

Ref the JCLA that is a matter of opinion i helped organize 2 marches and will keep searching for the truth.

How have we meddled in police investigations?

you didn't answer my question why no charges against Graham Power

Stoneface said...

Ask Graham Power? He should know whats going on so why should he need you? The Farce Blog is awesome because unlike your shitty blog it has States member's opinions. Who will you ever get on here? Tadier or Syvret? Total crap.

Point you in the right direction? Get a job with Bill Ogley, sign official secrets and then you can view all these reports at your convenience.

Why Graham Power has actually asked you to do all this because he must of is worth questioning on its own.

GeeGee said...

Why is it a pointless exchange Stoneface? Simply because you cannot come up with anything concrete (sorry!) to say apart from peddling out the same old tripe about 'not getting anywhere'.

Also, what the hell has the JCLA got to do with all this? Rico has been prominent in marches, contacting politicians and anything he can possibly do to further the cause of the abused. He is well loved and respected by a lot of these people who do not have a bad word to say against him. So what is the issue with the JCLA, and how would you know what he has or hasn't done, or whether he works or not?

These sort of silly comments do not warrant blog space, but it is Rico's blog and he has broad shoulders.

But please Stoneface, constructive comments would be more welcome I'm sure.

Anonymous said...

“Stoneface said...
Nobody protects child abusers, but people do not meddle in police investigations to the extent your group do. People are just sick of it all. You have never helped the JCLA with any of this.”

Hello Stoneface, is that you Rikki??

The following taken from a vile anti Stuart Syvret blog:

“Rikki Du Heaume i sit on the board of the JCLA and this imbeciles actions have done nothing but hinder the chances of real Justice for abuse victims. He is a joke and the sooner he is out of office the better”
07 April at 16:13”

Board of the JCLA hey!!! I don’t think so, you are an illegal immigrant! The JCLA board consists of only one person legally at the moment and it most certainly is not you and sooner or later, she will be out too! JCLA is being run as far as I can see by a bunch of bigoted, lying crooks who don’t give a toss about the care leavers and which does beg the question, why are they digging their heels in so deep and where have all their new found riches come from???

Rico, Stuart, Ian and everyone else involved in exposing the truth have achieved more for the care leavers than any of the board of directors of JCLA. The truth is being exposed, no, strike that, the truth has been exposed and we will keep chipping away until ILM et al accept that rape, torture, mental and physical abuse did take place decade after decade at the very hands of the people who were employed by the States of Jersey to protect those vulnerable children. We will not stop until Graham Power, Lenny Harper, Stuart Syvret and all others that have helped in trying to expose the truth are vindicated.

Anonymous said...

Ian is a thug, an e-mail of his has gone around facebook threatening Jon ******* this morning and has been handed to the police I believe. So much for your new support Syvret campaigne, you and people like him deserve to be shown in public for the scum you really are. You can also dream on if you think you have done more in exposing things for the JCLA because I am yet to see it, I presume you will be called into court as witnesses then seeing as your exposing evidence is so hot? I very much doubt it, you are just talking out of your arseholes as per usual.

rico sorda said...

Thank you for such a beautiful and well thought out comment
much love and non respect

rsx

Jon H (the real one) said...

And Jon don't care.

I know I have had a number of e-mails today telling me to do this and do that but you know something, I don't care.

Could whoever is winding Rico up from PJ or is trying to, please knock it on the head.

If he wants to discuss matters of Haut de la Garenne thats entirely his own thing to do.

GeeGee said...

Glad you said that Rico, because I couldn't agree more.

An eloquent, flattering comment from someone who seems to have a bee in their bonnet about the JCLA, and totally gone off tack with regards what this is about, and that is Mick Gradwell's misinformed statement.

So please Stoneface or Anonymous or whoever you are can you stick with the purpose of this thread and explain why you think Mick Gradwell made a statement which was factually incorrect?

rico sorda said...

I will not stop nor will team voice this will this do away

I will be giving stuart my full support

rs

rico sorda said...

Well that came out well lol

will try again. We will not stop and this will not go away

rs

Anonymous said...

You didn’t post the ‘Team Syvret’ poem though did you? What’s the matter, too much ‘truth’ for you?

Luckily the farce blog were not so conservative.